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twoleftfeet 11:24 Fri Sep 8
David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

Grenfell - caused by white people

Too many ethnic minorities in prison - caused by white people

I'd happily send this racist prick to the Caribbean.

ray winstone 10:41 Sun Sep 10
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

Rees-Mogg justifies his opposition to gay marriage and abortion even in cases of rape on the basis of his Christian beliefs. So where is his opposition to welfare cuts on the grounds that Jesus went out of his way to demonstrate his compassion for the poor and the lame? When Jesus says "blessed are the peacemakers", how does that fit with Rees-Mogg's consistently voting for military intervention? Where are his statements on executive pay, reminding other MPs that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven? I thought being committed Christian meant following the teachings of Jesus, rather than standing the pick-and-mix counter in a sweetshop only choosing the fizzy snakes.

Gavros 10:26 Sun Sep 10
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

Fifth. It was me that pointed that out below.

Other suggestions made by a report which has found no overt tendencies of racism in the criminal justice system is to have proportionality of race in the system (judges, solicitors, police etc) and also apparently to have some sort of 'community oversight' in sentencing. Oh and of course there was the suggestion that BAME criminals should get a reduced sentence compared to their white counterparts. The reason for this in the report is because black people are less likely to admit guilt and get the lighter sentence that comes with it, which the report presumes is because they don't trust the system. But as pointed out in the Spectator, black people are 10% more likely than whites to get a not guilty verdict, so may be they're simply judging their chances correctly. In fact that blog piece points out a number of statistics ignored in the Lammy report because they don't fit with his conclusion

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/09/the-lammy-report-on-race-and-crime-is-backwards-step-in-the-struggle-for-a-just-society/

riosleftsock 10:23 Sun Sep 10
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

"Are the differences down to institutional racism, or to the choices made by criminals? Frustratingly, we don’t think today’s report can answer this fundamental question."

We can't make any statistics fit our narrative.

Mastermind:

Q: Who was Henry VII's father?

David Lammy: Henry VIII?

LondonE3 10:22 Sun Sep 10
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

I used to get stopped and searched on an almost weekly basis as a teenager in east London during the 80s and early 90s and didn't get much better when I started driving.
Old Bill were on the whole ok just trying to get lucky but there were also some proper fucking pricks.
Used t knock about with whites and blacks and one night when no black mates were with us old bill stopped us and once they were happy we wasn't up to anything departed by telling us "Remember lads there ain't no fucking black in the Union Jack"

Fifth Column 10:05 Sun Sep 10
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

Gavros

They are working on percentages. The sample size is therefore largely irrelevant unless it was such a massive difference in sample size to make it statistically unreliable. 140 to 100 cases it not sufficiently different to invalidate the data.

The bigger issue is as someone put below - it could be comparing someone done for personal possession with someone else who is a big time supplier. It's just "drugs offences". That is the problem.

Gavros 10:01 Sun Sep 10
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

One of the statistics used in this report to claim that the system is racist is that black men are 240% more likely to receive a custodial sentence than white men for drugs crimes. I've since noticed that's based on a sentencing date of 141 to 100. Which is 40%.

Mike Oxsaw 7:57 Sun Sep 10
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

How about black people not voluntarily exercising their democratic rights and going back to their ROOTS!!?? Is that honkey's fault, too?

cholo 10:37 Sat Sep 9
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

Lammy presumes too much for this to be credible, that's not to say that there isn't bias, just that this far from proves it.

icwhs 9:52 Sat Sep 9
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

The racism against white europeans in the whole of Europe, has slowly in the last 30, been turned full on us, by Wanker government members...

Who all lack a pair of nads and a spine.

Mart O 9:47 Sat Sep 9
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

'Only women or BAME are allowed to apply.'

ffs. CUNTS.

PwoperNaughtyButNot 9:16 Sat Sep 9
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

gregan 12:46 Sat Sep 9
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?
I'm a bit uneasy on this. Was looking at a bursary for FA coaching courses tuther day as they can be pricey. Only available to women or BAME candidates. I then saw a good coaching role at the FA, right up my alley. Only women or BAME are allowed to apply. Back to the drawing board for me.



That is positive discrimination which is illegal

Sven Roeder 6:56 Sat Sep 9
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

So ... when it comes down to it when people are convicted of the same crimes they broadly get the same sentence.
And any difference is partially explained by the fact that BME defendants tend to plead not guilty more and as is normal miss out on the reduced sentences that people who plead guilty receive.
Perhaps the explanation for these higher not guilty pleas is not 'lack of trust' as discussed below .... maybe it's as a result of people like Lammy that encourage an attitude of nothing being my fault , it's all down to whitey that I am being charged.
There IS racism but the main reason more BME go to jail is because they commit more crimes.
Until you take responsibility for that and stop making excuses it won't change.

Gavros 2:57 Sat Sep 9
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

Finally someone susses it:

Do black criminals get harsher sentences for the same crimes?

By Patrick Worrall 8 SEP 2017

David Lammy MP has published areview into how people from ethnic minorities are treated in the criminal justice system.

Black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) people make up 14 per cent of the general population, but a quarter of the prison population, the report finds.

Four out of 10 young people in custody are from ethnic minorities, and this proportion has risen sharply over the last ten years. No one is sure why.

Are the differences down to institutional racism, or to the choices made by criminals? Frustratingly, we don’t think today’s report can answer this fundamental question.

The analysis

There is plenty of evidence of racial “disparity” in different parts of the criminal justice system, but not in every part, and it’s hard to attribute cause and effect.

In keeping with previous research, today’s review shows that people from minority ethnic groups tend to be arrested at higher rates than whites.

But after being arrested, they are slightly less likely to be charged by the Crown Prosecution Service than white suspects.

There’s no evidence that juries are biased against BAME defendants: they are found guilty at very similar rates to whites.

What happens at sentencing? One statistic which has received a lot of attention today is the fact that BAME offenders convicted of a drug offence are around 240% more likely to get a prison sentence than a white offender.

The figure comes from this Ministry of Justice analysis of sentencing by ethnicity in England and Wales in 2015.

It found evidence that people from different ethnic groups were indeed receiving different kinds of sentences, but not for every type of crime.

For crimes grouped under the heading “acquisitive violence” and for sexual offences, there was no difference in the odds of being imprisoned for white and BAME offenders.

The big difference was in drug offences. But the big limitation of the data is that we’re not sure if we are comparing like with like.

Apples and oranges?

While the researchers could account for some associations like previous criminal history, they couldn’t be sure they were comparing people who had carried out crimes of the same seriousness, or take into account the mitigating and aggravating factors that judges have to consider when they pass sentence.

The researchers said: “Drugs offences covers a wide range of offences, both in terms of class of drug and type of offence (eg from possession through to production and supply).

“Variations in the rates of imprisonment could potentially arise from variations in the mix of offences.”

“Variations in the rates of imprisonment could potentially arise from variations in the mix of offences.”

In other words, it’s unclear whether the BAME criminals included in this study were carrying out more serious types of drug offence.

Research in America has gone further in trying to allow for confounding variables. This US Bureau of Justice Statistics study tries to account for a wide range of differences in cases, and concludes: “Black males receive harsher sentences than white malesafter accounting for the facts surrounding the case.”

And this massive study by the Herald-Tribune newspaper into sentencing outcomes in Florida used a points-based system to compare blacks and whites accused of “the same crimes under identical circumstances”. It also found evidence of racial prejudice.

“Not guilty” pleas

One factor that accounts for some (but not all) of the difference in sentences for black and white criminals in Britain is the fact that BAME defendants are more likely to plead not guilty, and have their case tried by a jury.

This is important, as defendants who plead guilty generally get more lenient sentences from judges.

This trend would appear at first glance to be a matter of individual choice, rather than systemic racism, but the Lammy Review says: “The primary reason for this difference in plea decisions is a lack of trust in the (criminal justice system) among BAME communities.”

The suggestion is that people from ethnic minorities are less likely to believe legal advice they get from solicitors, or do not believe they will get a fair hearing from magistrates, so are more likely to take their case to a Crown Court.

It’s an interesting claim, but there’s no quantitative evidence in the review to back up the idea that “lack of trust” is the main reason BAME defendants are less likely to plead guilty.

The review cites this piece of research from the Centre for Justice Innovation – which repeats the claim, but also offers no hard evidence for it.

Phil Bowen, the director of the Centre for Justice Innovation, told FactCheck the “lack of trust” issue came up in “workshops and focus groups that we have done and other people have done” but said: “There is no one single broad survey that gives you that on a quantitative scale.”

The verdict

The Lammy Review contains a lot of statistics that point to different outcomes for people of different races in different parts of the criminal justice system.

But it cannot answer the six-million dollar question: is racial prejudice built into the system, or is something else to blame?

The statistical analysis that shows that ethnic minority criminals are 240% more likely to be jailed for drug offences than whites cannot exclude the possibility that the BAME offenders were simply convicted of more serious crimes.

Gavros 2:37 Sat Sep 9
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

There's a lot about the report that is reasonable. Most of the reccomendations are about making the statistics more sophisticated so that cause and effect can be captured. But the main takeaway about 'institutionalised racism' in the criminal justice system rely on totally flimsy statistics that the good bits if the report seek to discredit. Then of course the papers jump on that and not the interesting stuff to come to a reliably idiotic conclusion which again works against the interests of black people in the first place because it reinforces the perceptions of a biased system. The bit about black people tending to plead not guilty because they don't trust the system and therefore getting more lengthy sentences because they haven't at outset pleaded guilty and so getting a less harsh sentence being a case in point. A lot of good work has done into it but the biases of Lammy in presenting it anf certain parts if the media in reporting it does no one any favours at all.

normannomates 2:10 Sat Sep 9
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

The Brothers are lazy..therefore crime is a natural career path..FACT

********deleted*********

Gavros 1:43 Sat Sep 9
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

Essentially that's it isn't it. A certain subset of society commits more crime than others....tyerefore it's the fault of the 'racist criminal justice system. QED.

, 1:29 Sat Sep 9
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

The fact that those convicted of committing crimes do not, proportionately, reflect society's demographic make up is a fault of society rather than a fault of the judicial system.

That is the elephant in the room.

normannomates 1:22 Sat Sep 9
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

gregan
You have inadvertently just shot down Lamy and his ilk in that post.

That is all wrong..but hey...you're a white male..so you can't be offended in any way by our ethnic foes.

normannomates 12:51 Sat Sep 9
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

Hahaha

Mart O 12:47 Sat Sep 9
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

And it's Hitchens, you thick cunt.

gregan 12:46 Sat Sep 9
Re: David Lammy - what is wrong with this racist?

I'm a bit uneasy on this. Was looking at a bursary for FA coaching courses tuther day as they can be pricey. Only available to women or BAME candidates. I then saw a good coaching role at the FA, right up my alley. Only women or BAME are allowed to apply. Back to the drawing board for me.

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